November 14, 2025 — In this week’s episode of Around the World, hosts Dhruva Jaishankar and Rachel Rizzo recap the longest government shutdown in U.S. history and its implications for both domestic and international politics. They also cover Pakistan's passing of its 27th constitutional amendment — effectively boosting Chief of Army Staff Asim Munir’s power — as well as Syria’s future with its new leader, Ahmed al-Sharaa, and his most recent visit to Washington.
Available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Sneak Peak
Rachel Rizzo: I think we're gonna be having this conversation again in January because really what this comes down to is this fight for extending healthcare subsidies, which sounds like a domestic issue, but as we've seen the last couple of weeks, it has reverberations far beyond that.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Pakistan is a nuclear power. I think this has quite sweeping potential ramifications because Pakistan, mostly because of Pakistan's geography, right? This could lead to greater conflict, not less with India over the next few years. For Middle East security more broadly, this could have ramifications. And also the Pakistan-China relationship.
Rachel Rizzo: It's a fascinating background and I think this is really where it gets interesting. So for years, he was only known as this fighter named Abu Mohammed al-Julani and the leader of Syria's al-Qaeda branch. He had a $10 million US bounty on his head.
Welcome to around the world
Dhruva Jaishankar: Hi, I'm Dhruva Jaishankar.
Rachel Rizzo: And I'm Rachel Rizzo. Welcome to the Around the World podcast, your essential guide to understanding the forces shaping our world today. Every week, we cut through the noise to bring you clear, insightful analysis on some of the most important developments in geopolitics.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Whether it's security challenges across Europe, shifting power dynamics in Asia, domestic updates from the United States, or regional developments in Latin America or the Middle East, we make sure you're up to speed on what's happening and more importantly, why it matters.
Rachel Rizzo: Thanks for tuning in and be sure to like and subscribe the Around the World podcast on Spotify and YouTube.
Rachel Rizzo: Happy Friday, everyone.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Happy Friday, Rachel. Where are you speaking from?
Rachel Rizzo: I'm in Washington and you are in New Delhi? Yeah, how is everything?
Dhruva Jaishankar: And I'm in New Delhi this week. Great, we'll talk about it just a bit, but later in the show, I guess we'll be talking about the end, hopefully, of the US government shutdown,
Rachel Rizzo: Yep. Mm-hmm.
Dhruva Jaishankar: : Which has been 40 plus days, one of the longest shutdowns in recent history. Pakistan's constitutional amendment, what's happening there, why it matters, it actually has pretty sweeping ramifications.
Rachel Rizzo: Mm-hmm.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Trump also hosts Syria's new leader and why that's important. that's later in the show. But briefly, I've been in India. It's been pretty dramatic here. There was a terrorist attack a few days ago. In fact, I was little horrified to find out that the car explosion was actually not too far from where I was earlier that afternoon. I was meeting somebody not too far away, but fortunately it was very far away when the explosion did occur.
Rachel Rizzo: Yeah.
Dhruva Jaishankar: So initially there was some confusion about whether it was actually intentional, whether it was a terrorist attack. It now appears as if it was, and it was a cell that had been mostly captured. It was a group of mostly doctors..
Rachel Rizzo: Oh wow.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Who had stockpiled some explosive material. They'd been mostly detained and captured, but one, it appears as if one of the perpetrators that slipped through and was able to detonate. had over eight to ten people killed. The explosion took place very close to one of the most popular tourist sites in New Delhi.
Rachel Rizzo: Yeah, by the Red Fort, right? Yeah.
Dhruva Jaishankar: By the Red For yeah. We've also, this week in Delhi, had a really horrible pollution. It's led to protests. There weren't none today. A few days ago there were some public protests. So we had really high AQI. It's led to some partial school closures. And in fact, some policies like certain cars are not being allowed on the road, older vehicles, diesel vehicles, non-essential construction, mining, and other activities have also been suspended.
Rachel Rizzo: Mm-hmm.
Dhruva Jaishankar: So that's also it's been like the worst year possibly since the pandemic.
Rachel Rizzo: Wow.
Dhruva Jaishankar: So return yeah, so return to so that that's facing firsthand a few of the stories just to watch and I'm curious what else you've been interested in China formally launched a new aircraft carrier this week a few other developments in China. We've been seen a bit of a China Japan spat over comments made by the new Prime Minister in Japan on Taiwan. We had the Consul General in Osaka Chinese Consul General in Osaka, Japan, making a statement where he seemed to imply that people who stuck their noses into things would be beheaded and that's caused a lot of controversy because people are implying that it was in poor taste.
Rachel Rizzo: Yeah.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Another recent development has been a new study that shows that US investment in Africa now exceeds Chinese investment in Africa.
Rachel Rizzo: Oh, that's actually huge, because that has not been the case since, I think, like 2013 or something.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Yeah, this is from 2023 data.
Rachel Rizzo: Ok.
Dhruva Jaishankar: It may have changed since then, but even that fact is quite significant. At the same time, China is making a major investment in Guinea in a major iron mine, which could really have some strong geopolitical ramifications. This is a high quality iron ore mine. I think it's the most expensive mining project ever I think, we're talking 23 plus billion dollars.
Rachel Rizzo: Oh wow.
Dhruva Jaishankar: And China’s got a piece of that now and again, people are watching that to see if that shifts some of the balance in the iron ore markets away from Australia and Brazil and some of the other traditional heavyweights. Last thing I'd mention, Thailand has suspended its peace agreement with Cambodia. This was the thing that Trump sort of claimed to have brokered. And there was an incident where some Thai soldiers stepped on a landmine, led to some injuries, and it's led to a bit of a deterioration in relations again.
Rachel Rizzo: Okay, so we'll probably dive into that at some point, because I don't think that's something that we've talked about.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Yeah.
Rachel Rizzo: Probably be worth it to do an episode where we get someone who's an expert on like mining and critical minerals.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Yeah.
Rachel Rizzo: So that's something for us to watch closely as well.
U.S. Government Shutdown Over...For Now
Dhruva Jaishankar: So, turning to you, what's happened with the government shutdown?
Rachel Rizzo: Yeah, so this is the big news story in the US this week. It's been the biggest news story, I would say, for the last 41 days, which is how long the government shutdown lasted. It was officially the longest one in history. Just a couple of days ago, a bipartisan Senate deal was reached to fund the government through January 30th and to set a vote on an Affordable Care Act bill in December. There were eight Democrats who defected to come over to the other side to make sure that this went through. Obviously, it's caused a lot of complaints and frustration among the Democrats because it seemed as though when you looked at polling, Republicans were actually the ones that were being blamed for this shutdown. And so a lot of people feel like the Democrats sort of fell over and kind of gave in to Republican demands. We'll see how this plays out. The final version extends government funding through January 2026. So it's looking like there's a chance we could be doing this all over again in just a couple of months.
Dhruva Jaishankar: So just kicks the can down the road. Briefly, if I can ask you, what are the potential international implications? I mean why should people outside of the US care what has come back online that wasn't functioning over the past 41 days?
Rachel Rizzo: I mean, look, I think what ends up happening when you have a government shutdown is all non-essential employees go home because there is no money to fund their work. There's no money to fund their salaries. In fact, essential employees that go to work are ending up having to get back pay. And so what we started seeing in the US was major flight cancellations. The first day of flight cancellations was last week and it started at 4%. Then it went up to 7, 8, almost 10 % this week. And so what that does, I think internationally is it really shows that the United States is in a somewhat of a dysfunctioning state, certainly a highly polarized state, but things like international visits, many of those got cut. Same with international visits here to the United States,. Non-essential employees in places like the State Department, the Pentagon, Commerce, Energy, all of the major departments in the US weren't working. And so this really does have broader reverberations beyond just the United States and beyond just the dysfunction that it represents. So let's see how long we can keep this settled for. But certainly I think we're gonna be having this conversation again in January because really what this comes down to is this fight for extending healthcare subsidies, which sounds like a domestic issue, but as we've seen the last couple of weeks, it has reverberations far beyond that. And then one other thing I would say is that healthcare is the big issue right now, but I think if there was another president in place, say it was like a Nikki Haley or someone else who wasn't seen as such an authoritarian figure by the Democrats, I really wonder whether or not they would have decided to shut down the government. Ezra Klein actually at the New York Times did a really good podcast on this the other day, kind of asking this exact question. I think it'd be worth going back to listen to. So this has stuff to do with just Trump in general as well. So we'll watch this closely and tackle it again in January if we have to.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Right.
Pakistan's 27th Constitutional Amendment
Rachel Rizzo: And then on your end, shifting it far away from the United States going to the international community, you mentioned that in Pakistan, Munir has kind of consolidated power through this constitutional amendment. Tell us a little bit about what is going on there.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Yeah so just a little bit background on that. So, you know, if we'd been having this conversation on Pakistan nine months ago, this was a country that was looking very inward at that time, and it had sort of a triple crisis on its hands. There was real political polarization, largely because of the immense popularity on the streets of Imran Khan, the former prime minister who's been jailed. And really, you have a sort of a coalition of everybody else, actors, the army, various political parties and others who have very little in common otherwise, but were all interested in keeping Iran Khan out of power essentially. So there was that tension that was there domestically. They were facing difficulties on their Western border, particularly in Balochistan, province of Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, with Pashtuns on the West. So there was some internal security challenges they were facing, and the economy was looking in pretty bad shape. Now, what happened was in May, as you may recall, there was this three, four day conflict between India and Pakistan. And as one of the consequences of that was that Aasim Munir, the chief of army staff, was really able to consolidate power. It was sort of rallying around the flag in Pakistan. You know, it sort of bolstered the military's popularity. And he promoted himself to field marshal and really kind of consolidated himself politically.
Rachel Rizzo: Mm-hmm.
Dhruva Jaishankar: And so what we're seeing in some ways is a consequence of that. There's a 27th constitutional amendment that was passed by both the Senate and the lower house of parliament. This gives him effective command over all the other services. He was only chief of army staff. It's basically done away with the chairman joined chiefs staff, which is more of a ceremonial position in Pakistan, but he's become chief of defense staff more broadly. It consolidates his term. He has legal immunity for life, which is quite significant.
Rachel Rizzo: Hmm, yeah.
Dhruva Jaishankar: And he also has command over the strategic nuclear forces. So this gives him pretty sweeping powers. He's probably now the most powerful general in Pakistan since Musharraf, who became president, what, some 20 years ago. So this is really quite consequential for that reason. It's coincided, I think, two other things just to keep in mind. One is, Munir has able to consolidate relations with certain key external actors over the past few months. China, notably.
Rachel Rizzo: Mm-hmm.
Pakistan is the largest recipient of Chinese arms. Turkey and Azerbaijan, these three countries, Pakistan, Turkey and Azerbaijan call themselves the three brothers.
Rachel Rizzo: Oh didn't know that. Okay.
Dhruva Jaishankar: They have a very close relationship. Saudi Arabia, so they announced a mutual defense treaty, although the exact terms of that treaty are a bit vague. There's lot of speculation, is it sort of a de facto extension of Pakistan's nuclear deterrent? But again, that's subject to some interpretation. And also with the United States. So in some ways, Munir has been able to consolidate relations with some of these key actors. At the same time, he does continue to face domestic challenges. The economy isn't great. Inflation has come down, but the economy isn't in great shape. They may have to go back to the IMF for bailouts in the future. There's been another conflict between Pakistan and Afghanistan, the Taliban and Afghanistan now on the West. So both India and Afghanistan, they're facing very direct security challenges. And India has also put in abeyance the Indus Waters Treaty, which guaranteed the flow of some waters from India to Pakistan, which may have some impact for farmers as well.
Rachel Rizzo: Okay.
Dhruva Jaishankar: You know, it's a kind of precarious situation we're in right now, where you have a very powerful leader who is quite ideologically motivated. He gives a very controversial speech in April or so of this year before the conflict with India, or was a little earlier in the year, which was quite, in India was seen as quite alarming and quite divisive. So he's quite ideologically motivated. He's got more political power than again, almost any military leader in Pakistan in two decades. And again, is not risk averse.
Rachel Rizzo: Okay.
Dhruva Jaishankar: And so the combination of feeling emboldened from these diplomatic relationships that he is managed to forge, also kind of cornered by India and Afghanistan could have some consequences.
Rachel Rizzo: So I'll ask you the same question that you asked me. What do these domestic developments mean for the international community and mean for Pakistan's role both in the region and as a global player? Or is it more consolidated within the country and we'll have to see what happens there first?
Dhruva Jaishankar: No so I think this has quite sweeping potential ramifications because Pakistan, mostly because of Pakistan's geography, right?
Rachel Rizzo: Mm-hmm.
Dhruva Jaishankar: So again, this could be lead to greater conflict, not less with India over the next few years. You know, the situation I outlined doesn't inspire lot of confidence for stability in the region.
Rachel Rizzo: No.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Pakistan is a nuclear power. It has a role, it is trying to play a role in the Middle East of various kinds, whether it's providing access to airspace for Iran related contingencies, whether it's security in Saudi Arabia, whether it's the proposed peacekeepers to Gaza as part of the settlement plan. So, Pakistan is trying to fashion itself as a sub-regional player for better, worse, you know, it could have a blowback effect. For example, there were Pakistani soldiers a few years ago captured in Yemen who were fighting on behalf of the Saudis and that had, again, some. So for Middle East security more broadly, this could have ramifications. And also the Pakistan-China relationship. We're seeing Pakistan becoming in some ways a test bed for Chinese weapon systems. And more than that, Chinese doctrine and practices, which they're emulating more what China is doing. Recently in August of this year, Pakistan unveiled a new rocket forces, US-50 rocket forces, which is modeled in part on China's. So I think again, this isn't just a domestic issue. It has implications for India, the United States, for nuclear stability for the Middle East and for China.
Rachel Rizzo: Okay, lots of ramifications there.
A New Leader for Syria
Dhruva Jaishankar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lastly, turn to you. We had a really interesting, unusual visit by Syria's new leader to Washington. Tell us about it.
Rachel Rizzo: I mean, unusual is a good way to describe it. Unprecedented, historic. These are also words that we could use. Ahmed al-Sharaa, it was his first visit to Washington, the first visit to the White House by a Syrian head of state since Syria gained its independence from France in 1946. So I think it's really important to get some context here. So this is the 43-year-old leader who led the rebel forces that toppled former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad last December. He then went ahead and appointed himself as president of Syria back in January. This is his 20th trip as leader, as he really tries to reverse what has been decades of Syrian isolation on the world stage. And he's really trying to reinvent his country diplomatically, not just within the Middle East, but globally as well.
Dhruva Jaishankar: And what is his, I mean, he has really interesting background. Tell us a little bit about his background.
Rachel Rizzo: It's a fascinating background and I think this is really where it gets interesting. So back in the early 2000s, he joined the Islamist insurgents who were at the time battling US forces in Iraq. He was then captured by US forces in 2006 and then jailed for five years, released in 2011, crossed the border into Syria, and when he got to Syria established an al-Qaeda backed rebel army to fight against the forces who were loyal to the then president Assad. So for years, he was only known as this fighter named Abu Mohammad al-Julani and the leader of Syria's al-Qaeda branch. He had a $10 million US bounty on his head. What ended up happening then is that he divorced himself from al-Qaeda. And then ended up leading the forces who toppled Assad. And interestingly enough, the US sent a delegation back in December to meet with him for the first time. And that is when they ended up removing the $10 million bounty. This is not his first trip to the United States.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Yeah.
Rachel Rizzo: He came to the US for UN meetings back in September. And it was a super fascinating moment because he was on stage at the Concordia Summit next to David Petraeus who interviewed him. And this was the general who commanded US forces during their invasion of Iraq, the exact forces who captured Al-Sharah and imprisoned him for five years. So just an immensely fascinating turnaround for this person.
Dhruva Jaishankar: I was in New York actually when that happened and it was all these conspiracy theories floating about of like having a former CIA director..
Rachel Rizzo: Really?
Dhruva Jaishankar: With the jailer and the jailee, you know the person he jailed on stage together.
Rachel Rizzo: Yeah, the captor and the captive. Yeah, so many things. Yep.
Dhruva Jaishankar: But there were all these online, there were all these conspiracy theories floating about that as well. So anyway, so what now? What came out of his meeting with Trump? By the way, just a funny thing, he has a sort of weird dynamic or some interesting dynamic with Trump, like Trump jokes with him when he meets him and he's like, he asked him like, how many wives do you have? And things like that.
Rachel Rizzo: Yeah, he's a very strong man. he's, yeah, and this was like all the months he's been saying these things.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Yeah. I think the first time Trump met him at some summit, he was like, he's really handsome. He's a good looking guy and stuff like that.
Rachel Rizzo: Yeah, exactly. That's right.
Dhruva Jaishankar: : Yeah. Sorry. So what came out of their White House meeting?
Rachel Rizzo: So what now? I mean, look, he announced that Syria is going to join the global coalition to defeat ISIS. That's a huge deal. This makes Syria the 90th member of that coalition. He's also looking to repeal what's called the Caesar Act. And this is a series of sanctions that the US applied to Syria in 2019 during Assad's rule because of gross human rights abuses. So Trump has lifted sanctions and the US extended its paws on most of the other sanctions for another 180 days, but before repealing them fully, which requires an act of Congress, that's where you get into the politics now in the US, the domestic politics. Some foreign policy hawks, notably Lindsey Graham, really want to put requirements in place to review every six months before those sanctions are fully repealed. So that's something to watch. Also, the World Bank estimates that Syria is going to need $216 billion for reconstruction. So a lot of things happening at the same time here for al-Sharaa to both deal with at home and abroad. And I think this is just the beginning of a very long story. Something that I'm sure that we'll talk about again at some point.
Dhruva Jaishankar: Yeah, know, a few other things with the caveat. Syria is not a place I follow that closely, but just a few other things that would be interesting to watch going forward. Israel made gains beyond the Golan Heights into Syria. It'd be interesting to see the future of the Israeli presence, including whether it's a control over airspace, but also land as well beyond the Golan Heights. Two, Russia had established a base there in Latakia in Syria.
Rachel Rizzo: Mm-hmm.
Dhruva Jaishankar: And I think the future of the Russian presence in the Middle East also sort of hangs in the balance. And then a third thing is there have been some interest in including Syria now in IMEC proposals, so India, Middle East, Europe corridor, just having more lines of communication, whether it's ground or port access on the Mediterranean, just given the uncertainties in Israel. And so it's interesting how this sort of political reconfiguration in Syria could have, again, the spillover effect beyond that.
Rachel Rizzo: Yeah, absolutely. This is not just related to Syria. It goes far beyond, has reverberations for trade, for security, for many other topics. But as always, Dhruva and I will be keeping an eye on all of these developments and more and making sure we're keeping you, our listeners, up to date on the latest happenings in geopolitics. So as we mentioned, make sure to tune in every Friday for new episodes. And as I mentioned at the beginning, be sure to like and subscribe to the Around the World podcast on Spotify and on YouTube.
Dhruva Jaishankar: And if there are any topics you'd like us to discuss or go into in more detail, feel free to add them in the comments, particularly in YouTube. We'll try and keep track of that. But as always, thank you for joining us on the Around the World podcast. We'll see you next week.